Portal: Prelude Forum

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#1 18-05-2010 21:50:55

chimera
Member
Registered: 18-05-2010

Why people donīt like this game and why NykO18 hates them all.

i downloaded prelude about two hours ago, and now, after sucessfully finishing chamber 5, iīm back in the forums.

do i like it? no.
but this is not because the mod is "bad" or "unfair" like i read several times. in my opinion, this is because this mod collides with the expectations of most people.

portal was such a great game because:

- the (to many people) new portal gameplay
- every chamber had a new thing to tell
- the story was great and GLaDOS such a nice constructed character

portal was just nice and enjoyable (and had cake). i think a lot of people like me installed prelude and hoped for a game that is a bit harder (because we know how to work portals) and some more of that cosy portal feeling we liked so much about the original game.

but thats the thing that NykO18 doesnt like. he likes the challenge. levels so hard that you can spend hours trying the same thing over and over and over again. he didnt care much for the cake.

so now there is a game that is very familiar: same textures and the same game rules - just in extreme-hardcore-mode. for a person like me this sucks. for example: i played far cry a second time with maximum difficulty and it was great - because its a new way of playing and a new game-feeling. but where is that in prelude? where is the genius in the same old portal-in, portal-out approach, just damn hard? thats the same kind of excitement i get from cleaning my room..... 50 times in a row.

NykO18, you tell us that we need to "think" and everything will be easy. but come on: thats bullshit. you need to PRACTISE and everything will be easy. that "thinking" part was done in the original portal. so all it is for me is: UNNECESSARY hard and boring. sorry.

thats really a pity, because as far as iīve seen a lot of effort and good ideas went into this project and lots of people will never see them.

Last edited by chimera (18-05-2010 22:17:53)

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#2 19-05-2010 00:21:45

NykO18
Administrator
From: MontrÃĐal, QC
Registered: 29-08-2008
Website

Re: Why people donīt like this game and why NykO18 hates them all.

This has gone too far, don't act like you know what's going on.

I'm the guy who receive the emails, I'm the guy who's contacted every day of every month since fall 2008 by people who loved the game and people who disliked it for pretty good reasons. Now I don't ask you to think as if you were me, your post sounds particularly retarded, especially the part when you say that "a lot of effort and good ideas went into this project and lots of people will never see them". Yeah that's a pity, poor, poor me. Am I gonna survive this? Seriously, just stop. I never made this to get famous, hell I don't even want to work in the video-game industry. If people don't want to play the mod, good for them, just don't.

300 people gave their opinion of the mod on ModDB.com, and so far, it got an average mark of 8.5/10, it's among the most popular mods on the major international videogame websites, it got downloaded at least twice more than the most successful mods of these last 5 years, it was reviewed by a dozen magazines all over the world and it gave me some positive reviews from real professionals of the video-game industry. I think I'm a bit more knowledgeable than you regarding who liked and who disliked the mod, and even more when you take into account that people who liked it tend to express it a lot less than the others.

Stop trying to make people's minds, this is childish. I'm not saying this is the best mod that ever came out, far from it, it has a large number of flaws we talked about during the last years. I'm just saying that you're far from seeing the whole picture and shouldn't act like you represent some kind of majority.

PS: Thanks for writing my nickname properly, only a few people do this.

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#3 19-05-2010 13:32:19

Tyro The Fox
Member
Registered: 16-05-2010

Re: Why people donīt like this game and why NykO18 hates them all.

Chimera has a good point however. Prelude places itself within the so-far-loose Portal cannon. There is an expectation for the same kind of thing as Portal. Similar level design and level of writing. Surely, NykO18, you can see how people, who some of the people got annoyed with the game and gave up with it then came here to give their opinion? You invite them to do so too. Chimera's argument that Prelude lost the ### of the original is, in my opinion, correct. After all, if a game's world is a huge assault course then the plot is a cake on the end of a fishing line with a developer on your back saying you get the cake when you do some things for him. The better the cake, more a player wants to get through the game assault course. Even if the level design is bad, the plot cake can make them plough through regardless. Its become a staple of most games now. Story-telling is often woven in with the interactive bits. Prelude presents itself as an extension to the game so comes under the same scrutiny as the rest of Portal. Its an expectation it can't hope to ever overcome.

Whether or not a more rounded, smoother plot was intended originally, I wouldn't know, but as long as it continues to masquerade as Portal cannon then its going to make most fans angry. This should have been made as extra challenge maps to avoid the stream of anger players keep throwing at the mod. So what if its free and optional? The forums invite them to rant and rave about it to their hearts content.

And you told me you had no intention of touching the game after two years or so. Why do you continue to reply to every single comment like this when they all appear to say the same sort of things? You understand the criticism and what a portion of your audience don't like. Yay! There are people who like it! Great for them but they're unlikely to shout and scream as loud as the guys who hate it. Their content and happy.

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#4 19-05-2010 14:36:42

NykO18
Administrator
From: MontrÃĐal, QC
Registered: 29-08-2008
Website

Re: Why people donīt like this game and why NykO18 hates them all.

Reread what I wrote, I never said he was wrong. I said he shouldn't act like he represents some kind of majority.
Why am I still replying? I don't know, politeness or respect probably, or maybe because I like it. I'd cite this famous movie quote: "Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks." Everyone will always have something to say… It will never end.

You could say, "What they think is not adding or subtracting from your life or your value. Don’t waste your time caring it. Haters are going to hate. Naysayers are going to have nothing good to say. This is life. Realize it and keep going.", and that's exactly what I do for 90% of the time, except when people think they are so knowledgeable and tend to express things like they represents some kind of majority although they only care/know about 1% of the situation, just like chimera. Obviously, that's rubbish and I can't stand it because it discredits me and my work for the wrong reasons. You can do it of course, but try to find the good reasons.

By the way, I can't agree with your analysis of the situation at all. How come hardcore gamers couldn't enjoy a story and should just receive a bunch of advanced levels? That totally sounds like segregation to me, who said hardcore gamers don't need anything else besides challenge? You're missing the point. The industry creates media for the masses, the indies creates media for the niches.

Tyro The Fox wrote:

Yay! There are people who like it! Great for them but they're unlikely to shout and scream as loud as the guys who hate it. Their content and happy.

That's also why his analysis is wrong. Typically, the people who liked the thing don't care about trying to rally the most people to their cause like haters. Thus, they tend to express it via private messages and more often, emails. Which is why I still receive several emails every day although the mod was released one and a half years ago.

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#5 19-05-2010 17:23:17

Tyro The Fox
Member
Registered: 16-05-2010

Re: Why people donīt like this game and why NykO18 hates them all.

OK...Maybe digging through the Earth would be a more rewarding hobby but OK.

Everyone who argues a point immediately feels its the right thing. Thus, there is a general delusion that there must be a majority that agrees, so they keep going with their argument. They find like minded and recruit others while arguing together. Political Parties are similar.

The plot is weak and uninviting, which is my blunt point. Even a hardcore audience are capable of getting bored. They even like to laugh dance and sing I'd imagine but is felt more like it was sent out the door once the levels were done. Language barrier or not, writing could have been handed to someone else. Maybe even written in French or whatever your first language is. It could have been translated later. The Japanese do it all the time. I understand nothing's going to change but there's no sweetening at all from the dead voices talking from the ceiling or even from the reward of finishing a room. All I got was another round of flat praise. I genuinely felt like the higher functions of my brain had melted from fuming hatred toward the levels.

But we're the against party. We're the shadow cabinet picking away at what we see as flaws.

You still get emails because its called Portal: Prelude. Portal is incredibly popular and the mod will continue to disappoint those who find it unfair or dull when they were expecting something more like the original. The disappointment isn't dismissed like Fan Fiction for the same reason. I'd imagine more so recently when Portal was made free.

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#6 19-05-2010 20:34:00

Ashnod
Member
Registered: 09-10-2008

Re: Why people donīt like this game and why NykO18 hates them all.

Tyro The Fox wrote:

The plot is weak and uninviting, which is my blunt point. Even a hardcore audience are capable of getting bored...I genuinely felt like the higher functions of my brain had melted from fuming hatred toward the levels.

I'd imagine that hardcore gamers came for the game-play first and foremost, and the story was just a dessert on top of the main course.  Obviously, whether or not you liked either is highly subjective, but the intended audience, the hardcore gamer, seems to appreciate the challenge and the difficulty in the map design.

By and large I think it is the people who are wrapped up in Portal's story that will find issue with Prelude's take on the events prior to Chell's adventure. I am one of them, but at the same time, while I disagree with Prelude's take on some of those events, it doesn't detract from my enjoyment of the mod as a whole experience.

Ultimately, you have to acknowledge that this whole project was a labor of love from people whose only compensation for their months of hard work is the praise of people who took a chance on it. You might disagree with the plot, as I do, but I certainly don't think it was thrown together haphazardly or without consideration for how it might tie into Portal's story.

But that's part of the risk in trying to tell a back story: people have expectations and if they are not met it's quite disappointing for them. Especially for something as loved as Portal. 

I think it's better to keep in mind that with this game we didn't only get a new set of maps. There are literally hundreds of custom maps out there, and after a while, they all seem to bleed together. This project was ambitious enough to try tackling character, dialogue, and plot on top of giving us more challenging maps. I may not agree with all of the choices made in those areas, but I genuinely appreciate the effort involved in giving those things to the player, and the experience as a whole for being more than just another map.

Last edited by Ashnod (19-05-2010 20:37:10)

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#7 19-05-2010 20:46:53

Metal Madness
Member
Registered: 17-05-2010

Re: Why people donīt like this game and why NykO18 hates them all.

@chimera + Tyro The Fox:

It's OK to say if you like it or not, but then you should be objective and not subjective.
Just because the mod may be harder and more challenging it doesn't mean that this makes the mod bad.
Another thing that gets on my nerves is that you're comparing Prelude with Portal.
That's extreme unfair because Valve has much more workers, more time to work on and access to more equipment.
If you review it subjective, Portal Prelude it's a unique kind of game that wasn't seen in the Portal modding scene like this again and created a milestone.
The voices may be a bit werid and you may find it to hard, but before you bad-mouth NykO18's Mod you shall make a mod like this yourselves!!!

NykO18 FTW!!! NykO18 FTW!!! NykO18 FTW!!! NykO18 FTW!!! NykO18 FTW!!! NykO18 FTW!!! NykO18 FTW!!! NykO18 FTW!!! NykO18 FTW!!! NykO18 FTW!!!

Last edited by Metal Madness (19-05-2010 20:47:07)

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#8 20-05-2010 12:10:31

Tyro The Fox
Member
Registered: 16-05-2010

Re: Why people donīt like this game and why NykO18 hates them all.

Good point and sure. Something to do over the summer...A mod could be fun...

I have thought about it and removed the story from the whole thing. Then is point became better. I still hate the amount of time I spent trying to figure how to do something then have no feeling of achievement afterwards but it seems the ending is all that's keeping me trying get through it. I sneaked a peak on Youtube. It looks cool. And I palmed by forehead at a few of the solutions for this at how simple and how stupid they made me look. I'm going to make a more informed opinion.

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#9 30-05-2010 11:50:16

gogogo
Member
Registered: 30-05-2010
Website

Re: Why people donīt like this game and why NykO18 hates them all.

time restrictions


man-twitter

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#10 03-06-2010 04:40:10

dvc
Member
Registered: 15-05-2010

Re: Why people donīt like this game and why NykO18 hates them all.

I have a question. Why couldn't you guys just gut volunteer voice actors from the web? I'm sure you could do that now. It kinda ruins the tone hearing thoose unemotional microsoft sam voices.

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#11 03-06-2010 11:27:45

NykO18
Administrator
From: MontrÃĐal, QC
Registered: 29-08-2008
Website

Re: Why people donīt like this game and why NykO18 hates them all.

dvc wrote:

I have a question. Why couldn't you guys just gut volunteer voice actors from the web? I'm sure you could do that now. It kinda ruins the tone hearing thoose unemotional microsoft sam voices.

Well you know, I have a life that's far more interesting than hiring and managing voice actors all day long right now.
You guys don't seem to understand this mod was out in 2008, it's not gonna get any better anymore, it's the final version.

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#12 27-04-2011 15:31:33

xdiesp
Member
Registered: 27-04-2011

Re: Why people donīt like this game and why NykO18 hates them all.

My contribution to the age-long shitstorm.

We should have nothing but respect for NykO18:
1) He's worked hard on the mod for free
2) Kept minding after fans in email and forum for years
3) An author can stick to his philosophy after all

But NykO18 should respect the fans a bit too. big_smile
1) You did this for them. Working in the HL community is awesome, they are that good, don't alienate any
2) Such long commitment means you could add a little detail too: an easy mode
3) Because you like hardcore gaming, as many but not all. With that option you could satisfy both and still come on top

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#13 28-04-2011 06:54:50

NykO18
Administrator
From: MontrÃĐal, QC
Registered: 29-08-2008
Website

Re: Why people donīt like this game and why NykO18 hates them all.

I can't believe I'm still replying to this after years big_smile

xdiesp wrote:

But NykO18 should respect the fans a bit too. big_smile
1) You did this for them. Working in the HL community is awesome, they are that good, don't alienate any
2) Such long commitment means you could add a little detail too: an easy mode
3) Because you like hardcore gaming, as many but not all. With that option you could satisfy both and still come on top

1) I'm respecting the fans, especially the fans of my work. Respecting the fans of Portal? That's unrelated. I'm not Valve, I'm not working for them and I didn't try to create something for the average Portal gamer. My ambition has always been to provide a fairly difficult alternative to Portal, not a link-minded experience... So while I respect that they prefer the original Portal's gameplay, I also disrespect them for trying to force me into thinking there is nothing else than that.

2) Such long commitment especially means getting really frustrated and bored to the point where adding a single change to the whole thing makes you want to commit suicide since it's delaying the release and means you have to start testing it all over again. On the long run, it gets really bad. An easy mode was impossible to do, there's no option for this in Portal.

3) Satisfying both is entirely feasible, that's called difficulty modes, and Portal don't have them. So if you want to satisfy beginners you have to water down the complexity, and if you want to satisfy hardcore gamers, you have to make it harder. On both cases, you're alienating one side. And there was absolutely no way I would be doing two versions of the whole thing. You can't even imagine how hard it is to stay consistent through the development of something like this... I can't even imagine if I had to duplicate the number of maps and tests.

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