Portal: Prelude Forum

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#1 29-06-2009 03:05:37

Fluffles
Member
Registered: 29-06-2009

Cheaters aboard!

In response to the news topic on Sunday, June 28, 2009 I think some issues need to be cleared up.

After a few hours of research on the Internet with my friend Google and with the help of one of the former Prelude record holder, I indeed found quite a few suspicious details. First, this guy is commenting out on a video named "How To Cheat In Portal Without Cheating" where he actually states that he's trying to cheat. Then you can find all of his Portal time trials on some weird website named "Cheat Grabber".

Okay firstly this "How To Cheat In Portal Without Cheating" involves phys_timescale... which has nothing to do with speedruns and just messes around with physics.
Then there is this "Cheat Grabber" website...
Well the link you have given us for example.
http://www.portalprelude.com/images/new … timich.png
includes many videos... that don't involve cheating in any way!
and then I go on this website and search for my videos... that I have not posted on this site
http://www.cheatgrabber.com/index.php?s … ;submit=Go
Yeah it's there.
and lets search something different.
http://www.cheatgrabber.com/index.php?s … ;submit=Go
Oh look! My little pony! What a bunch of cheaters they are.

Then we get to the nitty-gritty shitty stuff big_smile
about frame rates and turn times.
http://www.portalprelude.com/2009/06/ch … aboard.php
This is the source recorder. When recording using it it contains so many glitches. it has nothing to do with were the player is looking. As you can see here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbrgpnRN … annel_page
The source recorder doesn't record what the player sees. It records the environment. It can corrupt on a frame to frame basis, and as with this video it can corrupt almost entirely... not knowing the x,y,z axis of the player.
When using FRAPS or some other recorder, this issue does not exist.

But still I admit... he could be cheating... but I just showed half your arguments need to be crammed back into the hole the emerged from.
The fact that you can turn and fire in 1 frame is a bit bs... can we get a series of screens showing this?
And also I think Stimich is making a video where he films and then shows the console...
GOODNIGHT big_smile

Last edited by Fluffles (29-06-2009 04:02:10)

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#2 29-06-2009 05:22:21

Fluffles
Member
Registered: 29-06-2009

Re: Cheaters aboard!

Okay here is the video big_smile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rh23IhOhrpc
Is that not proof XD

Last edited by Fluffles (29-06-2009 05:25:32)

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#3 29-06-2009 08:27:57

Kingpin
Member
Registered: 23-10-2008

Re: Cheaters aboard!

Seems like Stimich either found someone to post this for him or made another account. Your explanation of timescale has no relevance to Stimich's Prelude runs and providing 1 video of him playing chamber 16 on vanilla Portal does not provide any proof whatsoever. That is also the easiest chamber to execute a good time, and your's wasn't even good you just shot the portals and walked through...anyone can do that.

That fact that you ask for a series of screens showing the 1fps turning shows that you didn't even completely read Nyk's post on the news board. He gives you a perfectly good example of where he uses it. I could also find a lot more where this same 1fps turning appears in Stimich's runs.

This leads me onto the validity of his 'proof video'. It can be seen that he is using a downloaded version of portal which has a bugged record function, so of course the video will be skipping. So in no way can you compare this demo to his Prelude runs because the Prelude recorder is perfect, it uses the non-bugged version of the console recorder where you can record smoothly as seen in all the other runs provided by other Prelude record holders. Stimich's runs do not follow this trend, they smoothly skip for want of a better word. It only seems like his aim is good until you closely inspect each frame and see the difference between a legit run and one by him and it turns out that his aim has been clipped to perfection.

Me and DemonStrate have also created TAS specific runs ourselves, and it is completely obvious that Stimich's runs have used the same principle.

So Fluffles or should I say Stimich?, there really should be no arguement about this, it's already been confirmed he is cheating and I am also 100% positive that he is. DemonStrate has also infromed me that his videos are definately not 'real' so don't waste your time arguing about things that are out of your control.

I suggest Stimich takes his cheats elsewhere.

Last edited by Kingpin (29-06-2009 08:49:55)

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#4 29-06-2009 09:22:01

Fluffles
Member
Registered: 29-06-2009

Re: Cheaters aboard!

I'm fluffles... a completely different person!
and also I just disproved a few things... I would like you to share more of said proof.
I am also starting to doubt him myself...
But my explanation of timescale was in response to the stupid claims on the front page of this site.
If you choose to grab stuff from youtube sites which don't have anything to do with cheating... Ie physics timescale... I'd say that's just evidence mining.

I was referring to the 1frame turn SHOOT... because if i see evidence of that it proves the point. This one frame look at ground doesn't prove anything... it can easily be a one frame corruption of the demo. which means that YOU didn't read what I just posted tongue

Most of your points still stand.. but I'd like to see more evidence that the few frames provided.

I'd have to agree with the claims that he isn't using the proper version of portal... as when the console is open the build number isn't showing.
SO NOW PROVE YOUR POINT.
And remove the phony evidence and keep the 1frame turns.

Last edited by Fluffles (29-06-2009 09:27:56)

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#5 29-06-2009 09:54:41

DemonStrate
Member
Registered: 24-09-2008

Re: Cheaters aboard!

Build number doesn't show because of a recent update that Valve did. This is also the reason demo recording is NOW BROKEN also. Whoever owns Portal, record anything you feel like and replay the demo. The current build is 3791. It doesn't show the build number in the corner if you disconnect from a map.

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#6 29-06-2009 09:56:35

Fluffles
Member
Registered: 29-06-2009

Re: Cheaters aboard!

Ahhh nw!
So now the only proof is that one frame... that can be contributed to being just a damn demo?

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#7 29-06-2009 10:20:06

Muzozavr_
Member
Registered: 19-04-2009

Re: Cheaters aboard!

Also if it wasn't HQ, it could just be YouTube quality.
The "cheatgrabber" site just embeds random videos, BS evidence.


(Tay Zonday)
Crash into weird, make 'em think you're crazy, smash into weird, make 'em think you're faking it.
Crash into weird, make 'em think you lost your mind, smash into weird, make a circus act cry.

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#8 29-06-2009 10:35:58

Kingpin
Member
Registered: 23-10-2008

Re: Cheaters aboard!

Fluffles, to be honest, you are not helping with anything. I have no idea why but you seem to want to push the matter further. If you could explain to me directly why Stimich's runs happen to be 'corrupted' in this way to have frame warping, I may listen, however just by saying it could be corrupted doesn't mean anything. If you slow any other videos down done by other players I guarantee that you will not find this same effect. Call it coincidence if you like but just be wary that there is a thing called cheating.

Also Muzo, the youtube quality doesn't effect what frame is seen in the video, thats a ridiculous claim a frame is a frame no matter what the quality, we can still see where he is aiming.

Last edited by Kingpin (29-06-2009 10:46:49)

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#9 29-06-2009 10:45:52

Muzozavr_
Member
Registered: 19-04-2009

Re: Cheaters aboard!

First of all, I want NykO18 to tell what video setting did he use for the 1-frame turn screenshots. If it's HD, it's indeed strange. If it's not HD, then shut up cause YouTube is known to murder video quality.

To get HD, use &fmt=22 at the end of the video.


(Tay Zonday)
Crash into weird, make 'em think you're crazy, smash into weird, make 'em think you're faking it.
Crash into weird, make 'em think you lost your mind, smash into weird, make a circus act cry.

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#10 29-06-2009 11:05:58

Muzozavr_
Member
Registered: 19-04-2009

Re: Cheaters aboard!

Also, this is something I need to mention:

Stimich doesn't act like most cheaters do.
I've seen many different persons accused of cheating, sometimes they were cheating, sometimes they were just that damn good. One thing I've noticed, 99% of cheaters act like a crybaby when asked to provide proof. They don't even try.

Stimich, on the other hand, is understandably angry, but he does provide proof, several times in a row. There are still some questions he didn't answer, but come on, the latest "real version" proof was uploaded TODAY! Give him some time.


(Tay Zonday)
Crash into weird, make 'em think you're crazy, smash into weird, make 'em think you're faking it.
Crash into weird, make 'em think you lost your mind, smash into weird, make a circus act cry.

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#11 29-06-2009 11:08:46

Muzozavr
Member
Registered: 05-03-2009

Re: Cheaters aboard!

(accounts being stupid, can't edit the previous post)
Are these screenshot series even from the same video, BTW?

Last edited by Muzozavr (29-06-2009 11:10:07)


Two accounts for two signatures! Two signatures for DOUBLE POWER!!

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#12 29-06-2009 12:18:52

Kingpin
Member
Registered: 23-10-2008

Re: Cheaters aboard!

Yes they are.

You cannot just say its corrupted with hard proof. Trust me youtube quality does not actually change frames, it just doesn't work like that, the quality may go down, but what you're seeing is the same.

btw, you call doing chamber 16 in vanilla portal proof? I certainly dont, you can't call that proff at all! He may be able to play portal, but its impossible to accomplish some runs he did and when I say that I actually really mean that no human could possibly do it. Chamber 12 is the best example out there, it's really not hard to tell.

You also can't judge whether he is cheating just by your personal experience of previous cheaters, that proves nothing so it is besides the point.

Last edited by Kingpin (29-06-2009 12:22:36)

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#13 29-06-2009 13:06:17

NykO18
Administrator
From: France
Registered: 29-08-2008
Website

Re: Cheaters aboard!

I'm not going to comment on this issue.
Since he can't prove I'm wrong at all, and since I have enough suspicious elements to make my mind, that's it.
If he can bring some new elements to clear this case, I'll take a look, but for the moment, it's over.

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#14 29-06-2009 14:27:37

Fluffles
Member
Registered: 29-06-2009

Re: Cheaters aboard!

Ah right... but surely there's something he can do to show you that he can actually play as good as his videos show?
Like record a video of him playing... or something of the sort. Because so far he has been treated pretty unfairly. There are so many explanations for a flick like this...

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#15 29-06-2009 14:52:33

Kingpin
Member
Registered: 23-10-2008

Re: Cheaters aboard!

Not really Fluffles, if you have ever tried hard to speedrun, you'd understand exactly how ridiculous it really is.

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#16 29-06-2009 14:58:34

NykO18
Administrator
From: France
Registered: 29-08-2008
Website

Re: Cheaters aboard!

I'm open to all sorts of proofs.
I disabled the news comments in order to avoid some flame war in the commentaries, but that doesn't mean I'm close minded.

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#17 29-06-2009 17:35:44

NykO18
Administrator
From: France
Registered: 29-08-2008
Website

Re: Cheaters aboard!

Ok, whowever did this video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1u6o3ZusdA really has too much time on his hands.
This is now getting ridiculous, and I'm not going to search for evidences against this accusation anymore, damn it. That's my mod, my website, my server, my ladder, my decision. If you don't agree with this, provide proof or stfu. Running in circle crying like a sissy won't help.

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#18 29-06-2009 19:13:12

Shivhead3000
Member
Registered: 29-06-2009

Re: Cheaters aboard!

Partially unrelated:
This is just a proof of concept. Kingspin said that the source recorder for prelude was 100% foolproof - it was perfect. Now, these are just small glitches - but they are many, they prove a concept and they are similar to the ones that "proved" Stimich's guilt.
Here's the video I used:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP25f8W5 … annel_page - go to www.keepvid.com to download it and go through it frame by frame if you want.
Here's a few tiny glitches with the source recorder in the video:
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s52/hemblahem/Cheeeeetz/1x1.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s52/hemblahem/Cheeeeetz/1x2.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s52/hemblahem/Cheeeeetz/1x3.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s52/hemblahem/Cheeeeetz/2x1.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s52/hemblahem/Cheeeeetz/2x2.jpg
(Typo in the image, actually image 2) http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s52/hemblahem/Cheeeeetz/2x3.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s52/hemblahem/Cheeeeetz/3x1.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s52/hemblahem/Cheeeeetz/3x2.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s52/hemblahem/Cheeeeetz/3x3.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s52/hemblahem/Cheeeeetz/4x1.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s52/hemblahem/Cheeeeetz/4x2.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s52/hemblahem/Cheeeeetz/5x1.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s52/hemblahem/Cheeeeetz/5x2.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s52/hemblahem/Cheeeeetz/5x3.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s52/hemblahem/Cheeeeetz/6x1.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s52/hemblahem/Cheeeeetz/6x2.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s52/hemblahem/Cheeeeetz/6x3.jpg

ALSO, here - http://www.cheatgrabber.com/index.php?s … ;submit=Go - wow! That proves it.

Last edited by Shivhead3000 (29-06-2009 19:16:04)

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#19 29-06-2009 19:17:45

Mr.Yeah
Member
Registered: 22-10-2008

Re: Cheaters aboard!

NykO18 wrote:

Ok, whowever did this video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1u6o3ZusdA really has too much time on his hands.
This is now getting ridiculous, and I'm not going to search for evidences against this accusation anymore, damn it. That's my mod, my website, my server, my ladder, my decision. If you don't agree with this, provide proof or stfu. Running in circle crying like a sissy won't help.

Yes, you're right. You decide the rules of your ladder. And if you don't want TAS in your ladder, you remove them. Simple.

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#20 29-06-2009 19:59:03

Kingpin
Member
Registered: 23-10-2008

Re: Cheaters aboard!

It amuses me that people don't know anything about the source recorder yet try to explain things...The parts when it glitches skipping frames are parts where I am moving fast, right after the fall into the portal. This skipping doesn't happen just when moving at slow speeds, you will never see it in those positions. So whoever you are whether it be one of Stimich's friends or Stimich himself, you should probably leave.

Oh and by the way idiot, your frame selection is completely wrong, they are all over the place. that one when you say "where is this?" that is at least 40-50 frames after the previous frame. Get your shit right before you say this kind of stuff.

Last edited by Kingpin (29-06-2009 20:00:44)

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#21 29-06-2009 20:02:30

Shivhead3000
Member
Registered: 29-06-2009

Re: Cheaters aboard!

I would however enjoy hearing your explanation on the 1 frame 180 degree turn though.

Last edited by Shivhead3000 (29-06-2009 20:02:47)

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#22 29-06-2009 20:15:01

Shivhead3000
Member
Registered: 29-06-2009

Re: Cheaters aboard!

Kingpin wrote:

It amuses me that people don't know anything about the source recorder yet try to explain things...The parts when it glitches skipping frames are parts where I am moving fast, right after the fall into the portal. This skipping doesn't happen just when moving at slow speeds, you will never see it in those positions. So whoever you are whether it be one of Stimich's friends or Stimich himself, you should probably leave.
- So what you are saying is the faster you go, the easier it is to glitch source recorder?

Oh and by the way idiot, your frame selection is completely wrong, they are all over the place. that one when you say "where is this?" that is at least 40-50 frames after the previous frame. Get your shit right before you say this kind of stuff.
- Actually, I went through the "suspicious" areas frame by frame. They are not 40-50 frames later. They are lag that comes after as a result of your magically perfect source recorder.

Last edited by Shivhead3000 (29-06-2009 20:15:58)

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#23 29-06-2009 20:52:16

NykO18
Administrator
From: France
Registered: 29-08-2008
Website

Re: Cheaters aboard!

Enough I said.
I don't care who you are, I don't care what you want, I don't care what you're trying to achieve.
If Stimich wants his scores back, he just have to ask himself providing some proof.

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